Wednesday, January 28, 2015

Is Hillary Clinton a closet Fundamentalist?

So yesterday one of you intrepid people sent me a 2007 Mother Jones story that I had never seen before. 

It ties Clinton to a secretive religious organization that has strong connections with, and influence over, numerous political leaders.

This from the Mother Jones article:

In fact, Clinton's God talk is more complicated—and more deeply rooted—than either fans or foes would have it, a revelation not just of her determination to out-Jesus the GOP, but of the powerful religious strand in her own politics. Over the past year, we've interviewed dozens of Clinton's friends, mentors, and pastors about her faith, her politics, and how each shapes the other. And while media reports tend to characterize Clinton's subtle recalibration of tone and style as part of the Democrats' broader move to recapture the terrain of "moral values," those who know her say there's far more to it than that. 

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

The article goes into incredible detail concerning the organization, much of which sounds like a description of a slightly watered down version of Jerry Falwell's ministry,  and Hillary's involvement. 

It ends with this sobering assessment:

Then, as now, Clinton confounded secularists who recognize public faith only when it comes wrapped in a cornpone accent. Clinton speaks instead the language of nondenominationalism—a sober, eloquent appreciation of "values," the importance of prayer, and "heart" convictions—which liberals, unfamiliar with the history of evangelical coalition building, mistake for a tidy, apolitical accommodation, a personal separation of church and state. Nor do skeptical voters looking for political opportunism recognize that, when Clinton seeks guidance among prayer partners such as Coe and Brownback, she is not so much triangulating—much as that may have become second nature—as honoring her convictions. In her own way, she is a true believer.

For an Atheist who is desperate to get religion out of politics this makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand straight up.

It should also be noted that among those who have been confirmed as belonging to the Fellowship are Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, Sen Ken Salazar, Rep. Jeff Session, Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick, Rep. Louie Gohmert, and several Watergate conspirators.

They are also, it appears, behind the infamous National Prayer Breakfast, which every President seems honor bound to attend.

Author Jeff Sharlet wrote a very revealing book about this group in 2008. 

This is from an Alternet article about that book: 

The roster of current and former Family members includes senators, congressmen, Fortune 500 CEOs, generals and at least one Supreme Court justice. The Family does not publish membership lists, and its members are sworn to secrecy, so a full accounting is impossible. 

Sen. Hillary Clinton has been involved with the Family since 1993 when, as first lady, she joined a White House prayer circle for political wives. Clinton has also sought spiritual counseling from the current head of the Family, Doug Coe. Sharlet argues that Clinton's longtime association with the Family has helped her forge working relationships with powerful religious conservatives such as Family member and anti-abortion crusader Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas. 

The Family nurtures the next generation of prayer warriors in suburban dormitories. Sharlet spent nearly a month living at Ivanwald, a dormitory in Virginia where sons of the Family are sent to immerse themselves in Jesus and clean the toilets of congressmen and senators. 

The Family also runs a house on C Street in Washington, D.C. The C Street Center has housed a number of federal legislators, including Sen. John Ensign of Nevada. Residents allege that the center is just a cheap place to live, but as an Ivanwald brother, Sharlet saw firsthand that the center is a religious community. As far as the IRS is concerned, the C Street Center is a church. 

Members will tell you that the Family is just a group of friends. As Sharlet discovered, 600 boxes of documents at the Billy Graham Center Archives tell a different story.

There is quite a bit more in the article that will bring you pause, such as the fact that several members have demonstrated admiration of Adolph Hitler.

I have to be honest and tell you that I find this incredibly disturbing, and just the idea of Hillary Clinton and "prayer warriors" being mentioned in the same article makes me nauseous.

Believe me I want to support Hillary in 2016, and indeed I doubt seriously that we have anybody that could challenge her for the nomination.

But I may have to sit down and take stock of my reasons for supporting her, and do a little soul searching.

Fuck! Why isn't this ever easy?

97 comments:

  1. Anonymous6:19 AM

    It's a fact that when Hillary Clinton was elected to the senate, one of the very first things she did was to join The Senate Bible Study Group.

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    1. Anonymous10:46 AM

      The real questions should be does she believe in freedom of religion? Do we?

      If Hillary Clinton believes that her religious faith helped her, that's her business. If Hillary Clinton believes that she needs her religious faith in order to deal with personal crises, that's also her business. If she had said that "it is absolutely essential that you be grounded in your faith in Jesus Christ," thus implying that non-Christians cannot deal with personal crises because they lack Jeebus, that would be arrogant and bigoted and I have zero reason to believe she would suddenly change and become that kind of a leader.

      Delete
  2. Anonymous6:27 AM

    It's never easy because people aren't perfect. Personally, I think Clinton was more an opportunist than a fundamentalist. I think she was making connections. We should also remember that after the Monica Lewinsky thing, Hillary seemed to turn to religion as a way to deal with the public outing of her husband's affair. Whether this was a genuine need for support or a way to garner sympathy is unclear (and maybe it was a little of both). I don't think it's a surprise that Hillary is ambitious and cunning as well as very smart. I'd rather find out she was using the other members of the Fellowship rather than really sharing their beliefs.

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    1. Anonymous7:21 AM

      I think she was making connections.

      I think that may be it, Maybe not entirely but more than taliban fundy-mental.

      Palin is going down but I would like to see the press delve more into her religion, rogue religion or what it is. Cult.

      http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Sara-Palin-appears-on-The-Sean-Hannity-Show-YouTube-800x430.png

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8:26 AM

      I also think that Hillary was and is making connections. There is nothing wrong with people being religious - as long as they are not zealous and trying to shove their religion down other people's throats. I do not see Hillary doing that.
      Admittedly, I might be a bit naive here and might have to eat my words, but somehow I don't think so. She never was an openly religious person, and she definitely has had ample time to be that.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous9:26 AM

      Gryphen, Gryphen, Gryphen- Take a deep breath and listen to 8:26. Sure we'd like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders in the White House- but they're not running and would never be elected. It's about compromise, always. I know some very religious people who are even more progressive than I am, spend their time working on behalf the local hungry and homeless, always vote for the candidate on the left. So what if she's a fundie (or not) - what does her record say? (ok, there's that war in Iraq but a lot of folks got taken in by that crazy)

      I'm not crazy about Hillary, but we need to take the best we can get at the moment. For heaven's sake, people, don't sit this out or your local Federal building could be sporting a photo of another Bush.
      -meh

      Delete
    4. Warren for Progress

      Delete
  3. London Bridges6:34 AM

    As I've said before, the Clinton's are part of the Bush Crime Family. The "Family" models itself using the business model of Germany's/Hitler's Nazis, but tossing in Christianity. This was spelled out in one of the above references I read several years ago. Shrillary is very bad news. She started out as a "Goldwater Girl."

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  4. She just wants the Christian vote.

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  5. A J Billings6:39 AM

    I've never been a big Hillary fan, but I'd take her any day over the current "front runners" in the Repub cloister.

    If this is true about Hillary, and it sounds like there's some strong evidence, I hope that she gets questioned about it on the campaign trail.

    If Hills does not run, the D's are going to be hard pressed to win in 2016.

    O/T, but very interesting is this mea culpa by Matt Lewis, yet ANOTHER of the long time Palin cheerleaders who is just now "seeing" the error of S'error!

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/28/you-betcha-i-was-wrong-about-sarah-palin.html

    This massive fail from the Iowa speech in the last 3 days has to have $arah just fuming mad, and looking for revenge whenever, and however she can get it.

    In that article, look for a really well written and salient comment by LisaB, who lived in Alaska from 2002 to 2007.

    Part of her comment
    When my husband called to tell me McCain had picked Palin,
    the first words out of my mouth were, "he's lost the election."

    People in Alaska had already started to realize what a mistake she was. I'd never voted anything but Republican for president. How could McCain do this?


    Her answers during debates never seemed to answer the question, but instead veered off into what Andrew Halcro termed "glittering generalities."

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    1. Anonymous7:17 AM

      Matt Lewis is a big fucking putz...the whole article is little more than a scrambling for some ass coverage.

      "I still say she was an incredibly talented political force, but she squandered her opportunity for greatness, and instead became a fad. And it’s worth considering that maybe her early critics saw some fundamental character flaw—some harbinger of things to come—that escaped me.'"

      Well big fucking DUH asshole. You made hay for years propping up Palin's fraud and now you want a pardon having failed to grasp the glaringly obvious? Go fuck yourself.

      She was traumatized by Trig Truthers and became embittered? Lewis is clueless...or a sniveling sycophantic idiot. All Palin ever had to do was show a birth certificate and she'd have owned and skewered every last one of her "haters" for ever and ever.

      Matt ..the Rat... Lewis abandoning Palin's rotten sinking ship and wanting to be forgiven for not sooner seeing the that his imagined luxury liner was a festering garbage scow. But now that the stench of that reality is so deep in his nostrils he's starting to get a clue.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous9:30 AM

      If this is true about Hillary, and it sounds like there's some strong evidence, I hope that she gets questioned about it on the campaign trail.


      AJ, what good would that do? If she denies it, she loses the "religious vote". If she agrees, the left stays home. Religious views (or not) should be off the table, unless they influence decisions. Hillary has a voting record so that can be easily proved or disproved.
      -meh

      Delete
  6. Anonymous6:46 AM

    I have never quite trusted Hillary. It's not because she has "stood by her man." That is a personal decision she alone should make. I really can't put my finger on it, it's just there. If she is the Dem nominee I will hold my nose and vote for her, because whatever she is, she is, I am reluctant to admit, far better that whatever the Rs come up with.

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    1. Anonymous7:12 AM

      Like you, I'll vote for her, but she has so much dirty laundry: lying so easily re the Bosnian sniper fire, intimidating Bill's women so they would keep quiet, the complicated badness of her relationships to Vince Foster and Hubbell, and more. Elizabeth Warren, where are you??

      Delete
    2. Anonymous7:32 AM

      Ahhh the Bosnia sniper fire.....

      This never gets old:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHVEDq6RVXc

      LMAO

      Delete
  7. Oh, c'mon, Gryph, this doesn't even pass the smell test.

    Don't fall for everything you read. I'm not even a Hillary supporter, but this strikes me as tripe.

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    1. Anonymous10:22 AM

      I agree. Does she believe in separation of church & state? Do I believe she would govern that way?

      That's ALL that matters!

      Delete
    2. Anonymous12:15 PM

      Smells to me like some people are hoping this causes divisiveness and takes away votes. Let's not become the GOP vs. TEABAGGERS. Divided we fall. Look at Hillary's RECORD not to whom she prays which is her business. I love E. Warren but she's not running and I have the patience to wait another cycle. She will be even better by then and we'll know by her record irregardless of her "religion".

      Delete
  8. Anonymous6:50 AM

    I wish Elizabeth Warren would just run, already.

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    1. Anonymous7:18 AM

      Elizabeth Warren
      Will try to change thing for the average Joe.

      Big business don`t have Elizabeth Warren in their back pocket.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8:15 AM

      I would love to see Elizabeth Warren on the ticket with Hillary Clinton. They'd be quite the duo!

      Delete
    3. Anonymous10:24 AM

      But does she secretly pray? Who does she pray to and who does she do it with? Does anyone really care?!?

      Delete
    4. Anonymous12:01 PM

      Elizabeth Warren has far more power as a senator that she would as president. As a senator she can help write the laws to regulate wall street and the bankers, which is what we need.

      As for Hilliary, until I have proof that she is against separation of church and state, I have no problem with her being religious.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous8:40 PM

      Who are you kidding 12:01?.... -Anyone- has more power as president than as a Senator you joker.

      Delete
  9. Clintons and their devotees are not really Democrats, or Republicans. They are opportunists who seek political power to enrich themselves financially. Unlike the Bushes who used their wealth to gain political power.

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  10. laurensd16:56 AM

    The two articles remind me of the "you. too" strategy used in debate.
    I will research this more, but it smells of paid propaganda.

    And, I started out as a Goldwater Girl. I had no real clue what that meant. I am sure as hell a proud registered and voting , (almost always), Democrat since I started to pay attention and read for the past 35 years.

    As a retired stock broker, I view Hillary's commodities caper as insider shenanigans...... but also crooked McCain's S&L deal illustrates that candidates steal.
    I don't care. I want intelligent.

    As for Graham and alleged files, maybe that "Family"group is considered competition He is no saint and his jerky son Franklin is the epitome of sleaze.

    Then, there is the 700 Club.....

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  11. WA Skeptic6:57 AM

    Except for the reference to the Rolling Stone article, I would be very suspicious about the origin of this information. I believe it could be deemed "misinformation" simply to disenchant the supporters of HRC in 2016.
    I think everyone is entitled to their own philosophy of "faith", but in our country, we must keep to the constitutional guarantees of the separation of Church and State. Anyone who reads history can see the horrors of combining the two.

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    1. Anonymous7:22 AM

      >> I believe it could be deemed "misinformation" simply to disenchant the supporters of HRC in 2016.

      Yeah, that makes sense you doofus. The article was written in 2007. How could your pea brain make such a stupid comment? HRC is 2016 wasn't even a consideration when that article was written...geesh, people don't think these things through do they?

      Delete
    2. Leland7:49 AM

      "...Anyone who reads history can see the horrors of combining the two."

      WRONG! The current batch of Fundies can read all the history YOU want them to read and they won't understand the significance of any of it as you say they would. An example? The Treaty of Tripoli, Article eleven. They flat refuse to accept that is true.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous7:54 AM

      Please try to be less harsh. Anyone can overlook a detail. Let's no become a c4p group.

      Delete
    4. Anonymous8:34 AM

      7:22 : yes, the article was written in 2007. REMEMBER THAT HILLARY WAS RUNNING IN 2007??? So, the article could have been a slime article on her at THAT time, and since she is potentially running now, they bring it out again.
      As I have stated before, even IF she is a deeply religious person - she does not seem to bring it out into politics. For her, it seems to be a PERSONAL choice, not one that she will tey to shove down everybody's throats.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous9:03 AM

      Jeez, 7:22 and 7:49. Calm down a little. You really do sound like the most ardent of the C4P crowd. It's possible to have a conversation and disagree with someone without being a sarcastic jerk or know-it-all. Way to quash discussion.

      Delete
  12. I remember this article.

    Uuugh. I have never been the biggest Hilary fan
    and after reading this article years ago---it freaked
    me out. I voted for Obama----who in turn had his own issues
    with religion crap.

    Oh for an atheist president!

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    1. Anonymous2:37 PM

      One wonders if the article accomplished what it set out to do in 2007. You changed your vote didn't you?

      Delete
  13. Anonymous7:09 AM

    I remember when Hillary was campaigning or making some speech on a stage, where she had Chelsea on the stage with her, they were giving each other the 'namaste' bow, the one with their hands pressed together. At the time, I just figured they might have found an eastern religious experience.

    I also used to see Bill Clinton do the Namaste sign.

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  14. Anonymous7:12 AM

    This is just a reason for you to cop out and go towards Liz warren ..... younger .. more progressive ....

    you know clinton isn't all what is written about her

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    1. Anonymous7:37 AM

      Not that much younger. Technically they are both senior citizens. Elizabeth Warren is 65. Hillary Clinton is 67.

      Delete
  15. There was a day in the past when political leaders were able to hold to two strongly held beliefs, simultaneously, without one encroaching on the other, i.e., Religious thought and Politics action.
    My gut tells me to hold off on acceptance of the findings in this article, at least in its totality. I believe Hillary is capable of handling this supposed conundrum of ideals, more responsibly than anyone in the Rethuglikan orbit.
    Consequently, IMHO, no matter to what degree Hillary may hold her religious ideals, I trust her more, and therefore have no qualms about voting for her.
    There is no one on the other side of worth, so where is thre problem.

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  16. Kathi in NJ7:19 AM

    I'm of the mindset that people can believe whatever they like so long as their beliefs do not interfere with my rights. I would be hard pressed to look at a decision Hillary has made that shows she was influenced by this group or any faith for that matter.

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    1. Anonymous8:00 AM

      Exactly. A highly intelligent woman with a strong knowledge of our constitution. Others of faith have served and did not impose their ideology into their service.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous1:34 PM

      8:00 am..... Long term DC types like Hillary have no regard for the constitution at all. That I can promise you.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous9:42 PM

      Don't make promises you obviously can't keep 1:34. It makes you look ridiculous.

      Delete
  17. Anonymous7:24 AM

    The shit is hitting the fan for these gleeful Republicans that are flailing and failing bigtime:

    ...What has happened since Republicans took full control of Congress three weeks ago has been less a stumble than a pratfall involving the legislative equivalent of a banana peel, flailing arms, an upended bookcase, torn drapes and a slide across a laden banquet table into a wedding cake.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-republicans-discover-that-it-isnt-easy-running-congress/2015/01/27/cdacca1e-a66a-11e4-a06b-9df2002b86a0_story.html?hpid=z2

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  18. Frankly, none of this crap, including considerations of atheism, has any place in political discussions or ideas about governance. It's all crap. Just crap.

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    1. Leland7:55 AM

      I couldn't agree with you more, omomma, except for one thing. There is an old saying that goes: "Theory is a wonderful thing."

      You are quite correct. None of it SHOULD have any place in the government. It always has, though. At least in my memory, anyway. Just never as badly as now.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8:26 AM

      Agree, Leland. Some religious groups are fighting a secret, and sometimes not so secret, war to put religious agendas into the government and law. They claim a war is being waged against them. I tend to think it’s the other way around, and I do think we have a right to know if our elected officials are of the same thinking.

      Mildred

      Delete
  19. Anonymous7:26 AM

    I'm curious why some of those members mentioned are some of the loudest voices against Hillary. So many connections from the "prayer partners" to those vilifying her.
    Benghazi!

    I'm not a Hillary worshipper by any means (Warren 2016!) but I'd like to have more proof before I pass judgement,.

    Mildred

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  20. Anonymous7:31 AM

    I think Hillary has her beliefs, and one of her beliefs is freedom of and freedom from religion. She's entitled to practice what she believes just as we are.

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    1. Anonymous8:50 AM

      Agreed. She may have her own personal faith but she isn't going to shove it down everyones through ala Ted Cruz. Was surprised to see Sen Klobuchar as a member.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous8:22 PM

      If people accept Obama, THE MOST SECRETIVE HUMAN BEING EVER, how on earth can people criticize HILLARY, who's weathered BILL "IVE SLEPT WITH 1000000 people" CLINTON?

      SERIOUSLY

      There is a book available for purchase detailing Chicago murders, cocaine hustling and bathhouses.

      Does it matter to politics? NO.

      But HOW can you hate hillary for stupid shit yet support obama, who's been blanketed by the media since 2007

      Delete
    3. Anonymous9:42 PM

      Shut UP, Alicia. You're as rambling as Sarah. Obama is THE MOST SECRETIVE HUMAN BEING EVER! Seriously?

      Get a grip, girl. You're about to come undone.

      Delete
  21. Clintons are pragmatics...or something close to this. Doug Coe has been around the big muckymucks and so has the NRA.

    Personally, I think it wise for Mrs. Clinton to get to know the ground game and how DC runs......she's been there, done that. Give a look see at her qualifications and how she handled her own family crises and there have been plenty.
    I do believe that if elected president, she would have my back, and not be a foul mouth weepy schrew....and I don't care what her sexual or religious preference is as long as it is not thrown in my face.

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  22. Anonymous7:51 AM

    IF true, does it change any of her policies on women's rights? health care reform? gun control? I can't vote on religion. It's how they apply it to the issues facing them. Clinton isn't perfect. she has lots of flaws. But deep belief isn't one of them.

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  23. Anonymous7:58 AM

    Pew Research Report: A Third Of Millennials Have No Religion

    The religious right will be quaking in their boots, or perhaps saying that atheists are lying, when they read a new report (PDF) from the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion and Public Life. A third of Millennials, particularly the under 30 group, are declaring themselves religiously unaffiliated. That is an unprecedented number, and it is on the rise. Right now, according to Pew, 46,000,000 Americans are non-religious. Now, more than ever, America is on the road to eradicating religion. Perhaps the rabidly religious know this, too, which could be why there has been so much gnashing of teeth regarding “sins” such as abortion and marriage equality lately.

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/01/27/pew-research-report-a-third-of-millienials-have-no-religion/

    ReplyDelete
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    1. ShootingBunnies12:36 PM

      My children went to Catholic same-sex junior/high schools. My husband and I are both Atheists, but left it up to our children to decide what faith, if any, they choose. We chose the schools not based on religion, but on the quality of the education that they would receive. Funny, they both are now Atheists as they found the constant cramming down the throat of religion distasteful and stupid. They are 32 and 35 years old and move to the beat of their own drum. Their friends are also non-believers and/or Atheists.

      When asked about voting and if they would choose Hillary, they both state that she has proven herself and they would have no issue in voting for her, even if her religious beliefs as stated in this article were true.

      Hillary has withstood immense praise and criticism, and I feel she has handled herself with as much intelligence and grace as I would like in a representative. Hillary will break the glass ceiling of the White House and for that I will be forever grateful.

      Delete
  24. Anonymous8:03 AM

    As long as she keeps it in her private life, it's her right.

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    1. Anonymous8:18 AM

      I totally agree.

      G. Willikers

      Delete
  25. Anonymous8:11 AM

    Could her being a part of this (if true?) have nothing more to do with anything than politics and votes?

    I will not vote for a Republican that runs for POTUS. Hillary Clinton has my vote!

    ReplyDelete
  26. Anonymous8:14 AM

    Fuck! Why isn't this ever easy?
    -----------
    Whenever I feel that way Gryphen, I think how relatively easy we have it compared to our ancestors from 6000 years ago who had to dodge Tyrannosaurs and velociraptors every single day.

    :)
    Mildred

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  27. Boscoe8:15 AM

    I don't really get the concern. If Hillary is a secret Teavangelical, she's doing it really badly, because the people who hate and fear her the most are the ones who'd vote for Santorum, would love to see an anti-gay amendment to the Constitution and revere Reagan.

    Remember, Christians who are "doing it right" are pretty extremely Liberal. I know a few myself who absolutely believe in separation of church and state (and not just when it benefits the church).

    Obviously it's not as awesome as if she were as secular as we wish she was, but anyway, what's the alternative? It's still going to take a few years to build up Warren's political capital. ;)

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  28. Anonymous8:17 AM

    There is no way to prove or disprove evidence of a "higher power", God, or whatever. Therefore I think adamant atheists are just as suspect of rigid thinking as religious folks (I am neither).

    I believe Hilary would truly seek inner guidance for difficult decisions that affect us all, and that's all right with me. As long as you don't expect national adherence to any particular belief, as most on the far Right would, that's ok with me..

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    1. Anonymous10:18 AM

      I agree. Atheists, can and often are, just as judgmental as those they despise. a bi tof projection?

      Delete
  29. Anonymous8:21 AM

    OT, but please do peruse the comments in response to the Daily Beast Matt Lewis mea culpa, http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/28/you-betcha-i-was-wrong-about-sarah-palin.html

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Anonymous11:41 AM

      There are more than 800 comments at that link...anything in particular that caught your eye?

      Delete
  30. Anonymous8:24 AM

    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/01/28/bobby-jindal-trains-1000-pastors-to-run-for-office-because-this-is-our-appointed-time-of-god-video/

    Bobby Jindal Trains 1,000 Pastors To Run For Office, Because This Is ‘Our Appointed Time Of God’ (VIDEO)
    AUTHOR: KERRY-ANNE JANUARY 28, 2015 11:04 AM

    ReplyDelete
  31. Anonymous8:48 AM

    Bobby Jindal Warns America: Our God Wins!

    http://www.politicususa.com/2015/01/28/bobby-jindal-warns-america-god-wins.html

    ReplyDelete
  32. Anonymous9:26 AM

    She was a "Goldwater Girl" in college, she is a member of "the Family" voted for war with Iraq, daughter marries into a Hedge fund mangement family and her husband spend all of his time with 1%ers. Does not sound like someone I would consider a populist or progressive. Why would I vote for her again?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Anonymous11:39 AM

      Because her husband made a bipartisan deal to cut welfare and plays a mean sax?

      Delete
  33. I'd be more apt to suspect that this is distraction, being brought forth as a means of discrediting Hilary and discouraging potential voters- because she really is the candidate that the Right fears.

    If she joined this group or attended a prayer group I suspect it was a way of finding common ground in some areas with radical Christian politicians, or even as a way of deflecting criticism. "She's antigod" "How can she be when she attends the same prayer group you attend?" I suspect she's a moderate Christian, and I really don't care, because she certainly looks like our best hope of keeping the White House.

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    1. If i remember correctly, she was brought up an Episcopalian and her family attended church regularly. Episcoes are a fairly liberal lot. There is no indication that she is a fundie -- those are the ones who want to turn the U.S. into a theocracy. I suspect, as many of you do, that this article is built on sand and not rock, by those who are anti-Hillary. JMHO, of course,

      Delete
  34. Anonymous10:08 AM

    They don't get to come after us with stones, chains or hot pokers any more, so get over the propaganda that people of faith automatically deserve our respect. It's more than OK - it's our responsibility - to call treacherous people hiding behind religion what they are: treacherous people with a self-serving and treacherous agenda. And they are entitled to no presumption of good intentions just because they can wave a Bible and spout verses when convenient to do so.

    Here is Rachel Maddow's expose of The Family, their influence and their goals. Hillary's ties to them certainly fit well with her support of a movement within the UN to create a ban on "speech disrespecting of religion."

    Rachel Maddow: C-Street and The Family.

    Rachel Maddow: The Family and Uganda's Kill the Gays Bill.

    Rachel Maddow: The Family and Uganda's Kill the Gays Bill are the same thing according to the man who introduced it.

    Hillary might well be poised to - and might well succeed - in stripping secularism from Democratic politics as effectively as her husband stripped away populist Liberalism.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Anonymous10:12 AM

    Why not let's just investigate the religious background of every single Democrat voted into office in history in this country and inspect and invade into their personal beliefs with a microscope? We could just go all out like Michelle Bachmann when she suggested we go on a witch hunt to rout out all those secret communists in congress.

    At this point I could care less what Hillary believes about god or if she's a closet male cross-dresser or lesibian for that matter. If I found out Bill also shared the same beliefs would that change my opinion about him? NO. They've both managed to separate church & state in making laws as MANY highly elected (and highly religious) officials have no matter what their personal religious affiliations were. Please somebody just give me ONE reason why Hillary should have to account to someone else her private faith or worship. I take literally what the Diest, Thomas Jefferson, said when he stated, "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", thus building a wall of separation between church and State." As long as Hillary believes that then I still have her back.

    I can't stand the catholic CULT but that doesn't mean I'm going to turn my back on the highly religious Joe Biden. He doesn't force his religion through law on the American people so I could care less if he privately prays or confesses to a flying spaghetti monster.

    Keep your laws out of my bedroom and my body and I'll keep out of yours. Don't fuck with my personal religious/spiritual beliefs and I'll not fuck with yours.

    It is when elected officials try to enforce their religions on others through law that I have a problem with. Otherwise until that day comes that someone proves to me that Hillary is intolerant of anyone else's religion or what a woman does with her body I'm not going to throw her under the bus. As long as an elected official upholds FREEDOM OF RELIGION I don't care as I don't care what they do in the bedroom either!

    Obama is religious and I don't hold that against him. If his personal religion makes him a better person then good for him. It impacts my life in no way. On Jan. 15 he came out with this proclamation RELIGIOUS FREEDOM DAY, 2015:

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/01/15/presidential-proclamation-religious-freedom-day-2015

    What I do care about is how a politician's beliefs impact politics and laws. I'm not ready to go religious witch hunting on Hillary as (like Bill) she has not injected her private religious beliefs on the American people and I don't believe she would. Now here's an interesting read if anyone would like to dig further:

    God in the White House
    From Washington to Obama -- the presidents' religious beliefs and their impact on politics:

    http://www.pbs.org/godinamerica/god-in-the-white-house/

    I will post below what a famous highly religious catholic cultist said about religious tolerance and intolerance.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Anonymous10:12 AM

    "But because I am a Catholic, and no Catholic has ever been elected president, the real issues in this campaign have been obscured — perhaps deliberately, in some quarters less responsible than this. So it is apparently necessary for me to state once again not what kind of church I believe in — for that should be important only to me — but what kind of America I believe in.

    I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute, where no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference; and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

    I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish; where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source; where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials; and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all.

    For while this year it may be a Catholic against whom the finger of suspicion is pointed, in other years it has been, and may someday be again, a Jew— or a Quaker or a Unitarian or a Baptist. It was Virginia's harassment of Baptist preachers, for example, that helped lead to Jefferson's statute of religious freedom. Today I may be the victim, but tomorrow it may be you — until the whole fabric of our harmonious society is ripped at a time of great national peril.

    Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end; where all men and all churches are treated as equal; where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice; where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind; and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.

    That is the kind of America in which I believe. And it represents the kind of presidency in which I believe — a great office that must neither be humbled by making it the instrument of any one religious group, nor tarnished by arbitrarily withholding its occupancy from the members of any one religious group. I believe in a president whose religious views are his own private affair, neither imposed by him upon the nation, or imposed by the nation upon him as a condition to holding that office.

    I would not look with favor upon a president working to subvert the First Amendment's guarantees of religious liberty. Nor would our system of checks and balances permit him to do so. And neither do I look with favor upon those who would work to subvert Article VI of the Constitution by requiring a religious test — even by indirection — for it. If they disagree with that safeguard, they should be out openly working to repeal it."
    -John F. Kennedy (a devout catholic cultist) Sept. 12, 1960

    Here's the entire transcript: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600

    ReplyDelete
  37. Anonymous10:55 AM

    These are the religious beliefs of Europe’s leaders—including the atheists

    http://qz.com/334402/these-are-the-religious-beliefs-of-europes-leaders-including-the-atheists/

    ReplyDelete
  38. Anonymous11:10 AM

    My definition of crazy religious is when a candidate steps over the line in regard to women’s issues, especially the right to choose. As soon as that line is crossed into the political I’m out the door. The next line is the fundy tie in to Israel as to End Time prophesy junk. I’ve never sensed this in either of the Clintons and do not think they are about to surprise us in any new insights about themselves. But hold on to your seat Gryphen, this election cycle is going to be very confusing. I think there are a great many weird ways our voting habits are skewed by political campaigns and playing down and dirty with planted stories in the press is now so common we have a hard time making sense of anything. Every time I see a “story” on Yahoo or any portal news site I check to see who wrote the story, what the author’s credentials are in regard to the content of the story and who is paying for the story. "Be aware" is my motto.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anonymous11:10 AM

    "The bigotry of the nonbeliever is for me nearly as funny as the bigotry of the believer."

    -Albert Einstein

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous12:16 PM

      "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. "

      -- Albert Einstein

      Delete
  40. Anonymous11:35 AM

    Hillary Rodham Clinton January 21, 2010:

    "On their own, new technologies do not take sides in the struggle for freedom and progress, but the United States does. We stand for a single internet where all of humanity has equal access to knowledge and ideas. [...] The internet can help BRIDGE DIVIDES BETWEEN PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT FAITHS.. As the President said in Cairo, FREEDOM OF RELIGION IS CENTRAL TO THE ABILITY OF PEOPLE TO LIVE TOGETHER. And as we look for ways to expand dialogue, the internet holds out such tremendous promise. [...] We are also supporting the development of new tools that enable citizens to exercise their rights of free expression by circumventing politically motivated censorship. We are providing funds to groups around the world to make sure that those tools get to the people who need them in local languages, and with the training they need to access the internet safely. The United States has been assisting in these efforts for some time, with a focus on implementing these programs as efficiently and effectively as possible. Both the American people and nations that censor the internet should understand that our government is committed to helping PROMOTE internet FREEDOM. We want to put these tools in the hands of people who will use them to ADVANCE DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS, to fight climate change and epidemics, to build global support for President Obama's goal of a world without nuclear weapons, to encourage sustainable economic development that lifts the people at the bottom up."

    Can we stop spreading this idiotic conspiracy theory now?

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous11:48 AM

    I read Jeff Sharlet's book The Family. The book is well written, detailed and chilling! Sure made me think and it really opened my eyes. I think Hillary is on the periphery of the whole thing but she may have felt she needed to involve herself to be accepted and make those connections as stated in previous comments. At least I hope so.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anonymous12:35 PM

    Oh please, everyone knows that Hillary secretly worships Baal.

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/washington-times-pundit-suggests-hillary-clinton-baal-worshiper

    Oh I almost forgot she's a secret jihadist in the muslim sisterhood too:

    http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/stealth-jihadist-huma-abedin-red-dress-standing-next-hillary-clinton-still-ignored-caught-video/

    Courtesy of Mother Jones:
    The Definitive Guide to Every Hillary Clinton Conspiracy Theory (So Far)
    From killing cats to faking concussions, all the dastardly deeds attributed to the former secretary of state and First Lady.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/hillary-clinton-conspiracy-theories

    ReplyDelete
  43. Anonymous12:47 PM

    Do atheists lack religious tolerance?

    http://www.debate.org/opinions/do-atheists-lack-religious-tolerance

    ReplyDelete
  44. London Bridges1:01 PM

    The "Family" people are not merely a group of religious people. They are batshit crazy illogical fanatics. Look up the names of its congressional members. Many of these crazies lived together in a frat like dorm provided by the group. It's a fake religion whose goal is political dominance. c-u-l-t .

    ReplyDelete
  45. Anonymous1:25 PM

    The word “cult” is a way to distinguish the main three religions in the world from the rest in anthropological terms. Curiously, I’m unable to distinguish the difference between cults and mainstream religions. My friends who are religious behave like they are in a cult as far as I can determine.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Anonymous1:46 PM

    All this conspiracy stuff about Hillary is BULLSHIT!

    ReplyDelete
  47. Anonymous1:59 PM

    For fuck's sake, this woman has been on the international stage for 25 years. If you haven't been able to make up your mind about her in 25 years then give it up.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous8:20 PM

      She's had more political lives than a damn cat. Game Change depicted her as psychotic. Though it depicted everyone that way.

      She's slapped Bill a million times, owns his balls, and is rumored to have another father for Chelsea (though that's probably a lie. WHY do nasty people enjoy creating paternity lies. ahem palingate assholes. Yes, your blog sucks. IM will always be better)

      Delete
    2. Anonymous9:39 PM

      Brooklyn, is that you?

      Delete
    3. Anonymous10:16 PM

      You only need to look at Chelsea to see she has Bill Clinton's genes, you fool. That wasn't even a good try. You're losing your shit, aren't you?

      Delete
  48. Anonymous2:52 PM

    I myself wouldn't describe the reader who submitted this article to you as "intrepid" Isn't that just a fancy word for describing a person or action that is bold and brave?

    I would say that reader is either 1) gullible or 2) covertly divisive & hoping to dilute the votes just like the conservative movement afoot that are now all of a sudden singing the praises of Elizabeth Warren because they fear Hillary. "Run Elizabeth Run!" they are shouting.

    So Gryph in all sincerity and with the utmost respect for you I say please listen to the common sense comments here and good luck in your soul searching.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous3:33 PM

      2:52 : BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO!!! (Standing ovation here)
      The more I have thought about this article, the more I believe it was submitted by a ReThug in order to cast doubt in you and maybe a reader or two.
      Think about it, Gryphen: the article was written in 2007, when Hillary was running against then-Senator Obama. It seems it changed some minds then - taking votes away from her then - and they are trying to do exactly the same now. Except NOW she is the only viable candidate (so far) from the Dems, and the other side is hoping that this article will throw some votes THEIR WAY - OR stop people from voting AT ALL, just like what happened in this last election.
      DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE - if you were OK until now with Hillary running, then you should be OK with her running from now on! NOTHING in her past points to ANY extremist religious POV. What she believes in private is exactly that: PRIVATE!

      Delete
  49. Anonymous3:16 PM

    She was actually raised Methodist, as I was. The Methodists have a long tradition of social justice. Methodists also study the Bible a lot. They don't use the King James Version, but more recent and more accurate translations such as the New Revised Standard. Methodists are NOT literalists or fundamentalists.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with politicians developing their spiritual and religious interests through Bible study. What crosses the line is when they use their religion to bend public policy to their own sectarian goals.

    Public policy can include religious goals IF they are universally accepted and not based on merely sectarian belief. (This does not mean breaking down the wall of separation--it simply points out that the goals can overlap.) Hillary has been an advocate for social justice, a goal that should transcend sect and party.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/28/hillary-clinton-gives-rare-glimpse-into-her-christian-faith/ The takeaway quote: Clinton spoke specifically about the importance of human beings caring for one another, citing the Bible’s central characters to illustrate her words. “Like the disciples of Jesus, we cannot look away, we cannot let those in need fend for themselves and live with ourselves,” she said, according to CNN. “We are all in this together.”

    I really don't care what politicians believe about religion: I want to see how they live their lives. I'll take Hillary's religion over Rick Santorum's any time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous5:04 PM

      I too am Methodist and my Methodist pastor who is a woman doesn't care for the Sarah Palins and Michele Bachmanns at all.

      Delete
  50. Anita Winecooler4:10 PM

    I really could care less, as long as it isn't the Angus Dei Catholic Cult, I'm fine with whatever religion she belongs to or doesn't, as long as she keeps it to herself and separates religion from politics, I'm ready for Hillary.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous10:26 PM

      Of course you are. Corporate spy brown noser.

      Delete
  51. Anonymous4:27 PM

    I live in New York and Hillary Clinton was my Senator for 8 years. While there was a lot of skepticism about her at first because of her high profile as First Lady, and carpetbagger status, she proved herself to be up to the task and stayed out of the media spotlight while she paid her dues.

    She worked hard right from the start, learned how to get things done in Congress, made connections with members of both parties, and served on several important committees. She did a great job and made a special effort to bring business to Western NY, where I live. I was happy to vote for her twice and was torn when she was chosen as Secretary of State, although I am also very pleased with her replacement, Kirsten Gillibrand.

    I felt she did a wonderful job as SOS and helped repair a lot of the international damage done by the Bush administration.

    She's smart, experienced in both Congress and foreign relations, knows everyone in politics and is tough enough to survive two terms as FLOTUS and several challenging campaigns of her own.

    I am far more concerned with her accomplishments than I am about who she prays with since her religious affiliations have never appeared to affect her performance or influence her decisions while in office. She has proven herself to be a dedicated public servant who does not shy away from doing the arduous groundwork necessary to get anything accomplished in government.

    If she runs in 2016, I will not hesitate to cast my vote for her to become the first female President.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anonymous8:12 PM

    Weren't you RABIDLY anti-Hillary once upon a time?

    ReplyDelete
  53. Anonymous5:11 PM

    Hillary has never been secretive about her religious faith. This is not news. Look at her actions and policies, and stop engaging in this ridiculous conspiracy bullshit

    ReplyDelete

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